The Harlem Divide
The disparate views of the neighborhood expressed on yesterday’s post are puzzling. While some residents write of gunshots and reverse racism, others spot $800-dollar Bugaboo strollers on Harlem’s sidewalks and describe feeling more a part of this community than anyplace else they've ever lived.
Seems odd. Harlem residents are either seeing the same thing but experiencing it differently or else their neighborhood blocks are extraordinarily dissimilar.
My experience is somewhere in-between. I feel safe in the neighborhood but can attribute much of that feeling to my close proximity to 125th street – a street always bustling with activity even as I walk home late at night. Harlem is the first place in the city where I’ve ever known my neighbors’ names, but it’s also the first neighborhood where it’s been a struggle to find fresh produce.
Maybe my midwestern roots have something to do with my middle-of-the-road view of the area or perhaps it’s my central Harlem location that’s kept me away from extremes here. What do you think? Is there a reality-perception gap or is it, in fact, all about location? What accounts for the Harlem divide?
posted by Rachel Natalie Klein at 12:04 AM
51 Comments:
I believe if you live in Harlem long enough you see it all, a lot of good and a little bad, it is just a matter of time.
My time is 2 ½ yrs and counting, I have many good stories that far outweigh the few bad.
Positive interaction and respect for the locals is key for a good experience, lets face it, they where here before us and stuck it out through the bad times.
Harlem has so much to offer, if you compare it to what you had downtown, you are missing the point.
...crazy how we complain but yet do nothing about it...
cries of "not my problem"....well if you live there...wouldn't that make it your problem.
i have an issue with gentrification...my problem being that it sucks that Harlem (of all places) is being bombarded with white people...YET...as vacant lots and dilapidated buildings sat empty...no one but white people bought those up and tried to make something out of nothing. So I straddle that whole gentrification and being the mad black chick.
Don't get me wrong...I want Harlem to stay black and power to the people and all that jazz...yet, money talks and bullshit walks.
As for those of you who think Harlem has little to offer and complain about the rampant crime and not being able to find your oh so precious bagels...well...
show me a a great carribean/soul food restaurant in the east 80's...tell me about any neightborhood in any of the 5 boros that DOESN'T have some sort of crime...As well...you haven't really explored your surroundings in fear that you might be called a blue eyed devil or a snowflake....Harlem has a lot to offer socially.
...yea, I am sitting here with a smile on my face...those of you who don't like being the grain of salt in a sea of papper.....LMAO Been feeling like that every day of my life...sorta makes me giggle that y'all are feeling...ummma...snubbed!?..heeheehee
It's people's perceptions and attitudes. I am further in and as I stated fresh produce is not a problem over here. I had more a of problem with fresh produce when I lived in Brooklyn.
Rambling rooster,
Agree with your last comment, It is an education to walk in someone elses shoes.
Also, shame that locals could have bought these buildings so cheap when no white people would think to live above 110th St. Who is to blame ??
Living in Harlem all of my life, I have never seen so many white people. Finding fresh produce? C'mon, we've had to go through that for YEARS! The rents are going up and on 141st next to my building, people are being forced out because its going condo, to make more room for white people. Just wait until the summer when all of these "brand new" condo developments that the current residents cant afford at 800K a pop, start taking occupancy and you lilly white folks stroll down lenox in your prada shoes and baby carriages, I can guarantee there will be blood in the streets, from people who have been here for years, with NO job opportunities, sub-par stores and eateries, left neglected, but have learned to develop a tight night community that is Harlem. And No, you aren't welcome, and thats just my opinion. You're worried about produce, Im worried about how I am going to survive in the neighborhood I grew up in for over 25 years now all of a sudden it's hot and everyone wants to live here. I cant wait till this bubble bursts, so you people realize that you've bought into a bunch of hype with no sight of change (besides a couple of overpriced buildings going up).
Up on 141,
Sounds like you are looking forward to "blood on the streets"
How can you not know racism is wrong
141 and rambling rooster-
you are right to some extent. it is too bad that people like me are coming in and pricing people out of harlem. but i know how they feel, becasue as a young white girl, i've been priced out of lower manhattan. much of the island has become so overpriced, even someone making in the low 6 figures cant hope to buy below 96th street. so, the choices left are brooklyn, the bronx, queens, or harlem. i could let my white guilt keep me out of investing my dollars in harlem, or i can put my interests first. if blood on the streets is what's to follow, well i guess shame on me. shame on me for daring to buy a condo in the only manhattan neighborhood left i can afford to. someone really should shoot me for such a crime.
personally i dont care about finding fresh produce or a bagle, i just want a home that's mine. in the city that i grew up in and that i love. im sick of throwing rent down the bottomless pit. so im buying in harlem.
sorry.
141 sayz.......
Racism is wrong? But we all think it? Again, white folks haven't begun to taste the reality that is coming to the neighborhood. First you buy around all the "brown street signs" so it'll make you feel safe. Then what's next? Ur already up in the 40's, you're invading like roaches. Trust me when I tell you all the black people in harlem feel the same about whats going on. They don't want it, or want you. So all of you great new white harlem residents, how about you come to a town hall meeting so that you can really see what's going on, the real issues of the hood, like health problems such as aids, diabetes, and social problems such as unemployment, slum lords pushing people out, lifetime residents- to make room for your white ass. Imaging being the young black kid who walks past that 800k condo on his way to the train, never being able to afford it, in his own neighborhood. Then you tell me what you feel. White people are in for a reality check, seriously. Yeah call me what you wish, a racist, atleast ill be upfront and honest about it. You haven't heard the black community until you attend a comunity board meeting, yeah we'll smile in your face give u a dirty look and call you snowflake at the same time, its because you aren't wanted in harlem. This is just what you need to hear, because you don't hear it often enought. Just ask a person on the street what they think about white people coming to harlem and you'll get a earful.
Wow - you guys - this is scary. Are people really going to kill each other over housing?
Why don't we all take our anger and frustration and tell the pols to create some affordable middle income housing everywhere. Ferrer was all about that but he lost - Bloomy threw a bit of it in his campaign promises - why can't we make him deliver?
I know how it feels to be helpless - but skin color does not automatically determine your level of influence and ability to make change. If we don't remember that it's socio-economics - not race - that help or hinder us, we're all screwed - and we're doing it to ourselves.
And, yo - I know all that just sounds like some hippy dippy white chick who wants peace on earth, but sappy as it is I actually mean it.
141-
i guess i just wonder what makes harlem so different. every other single hood in NYC has already had gentrification come in and take over. long time residents have been forced out of every block, every building in every other corner. BEEN to the east village lately? BEEN to styvesant town? these were both areas that people had lived in for years and years that are now rampant with people paying market prices pushing out the long time residents.
i hear what you are saying that this is how black people feel in harlem, and i guess part of me appreciates your honesty - but are you crazy enough to believe that harlem is an island unto itself? it's part of this larger city. we all walk past places we could never afford to live every single day. i work in what is now insanely referred to as Hudson Square, right above tribeca. i could rob 10 banks and still never afford one single apartment on the block my office is on. so why is this kid in harlem so special that he shouldnt have to deal with.
141,
Racism is wrong, sorry you think we all think that way but thankfully most people don’t.
I feel bad for longtime Harlem residents, I know local people that did buy buildings when they where cheaper, I only wish more local people could have bought in when it was affordable.
I was at a meeting recently re Harlem and one of the black speakers raised the question; “how can local people claim ownership if they do not own.”
Something must be done to keep Harlem unique, anger and racism are not the answer.
I think you will find the issue that faces Harlem is not race but class, the only color that matters in this country is Green, Harlem is not simply a black and white issue.
Again, anger and racism will only work against your cause.
Any suggestions
You still dont get it. Harlem is different in it self. We have a history and a culture here that cant be duplicated in itself. We aarent talking about stuy town and those other hoods. Were talking about harlem, and if you werent born raised or chilled in harlem for the majority of your life you OR are black, you will never know the difficulties we go thru daily to struggle in america. Harlem is the last place in new york where black people can feel and call home. When you people, yes you people - come uptown, in large numbers, the community will slowly start to die. The culture, the history will be gone. Again, it all boils down to race, white people will always have the upper hand in society, its just fact ,and black people have realized that. white people just say oh, your just being silly.. peace on earth, blah blah blah, its really not like that. Harlem IS different from anyother neighborhood that has been gentrified in the past. It is if not almost all black and its the last place we have to call home and the developers and you white people hungry for cheap rents and mortgages are destroying the community and the culture.
141 -
well said grain of salt...
the one thing we've all learned as new yorkers is that time waits for no one. look at the 2nd ave deli-an institution for years, and now, gone because of the allmighty dollar.
we live in a city with no memory. this city is constantly reinvented. it's not like other places where history is preserved and things that have always been can be relied upon to always be.
the one thing you can count on in new york is that one day you will hop out of a cab expecting to find your favorite resaurant/store/bar etc and you will find it's been replaced. replaced by something you dont want or need. but there it is.
in terms of one culture having ownership of one neighborhood-i think maybe that's the case in other cities. but that's not how NY works, we live on an island. there is limited space. and when one population increases it starts to move over into the next populatoins territory. look what china town did to little italy. look at what's happened to Hell's Kitchen. where did all the irish go? the italians? the jews? they had to leave manhattan. ened up in queens or brooklyn or staten island.
basically your argument is because Harlem's culture is african american, it's different.
again maybe you are right--but there are plenty of populations of people (namely the middle class) that long ago were forced off this island. and they all had history and culture rooted here. it just took this much longer for gentrification to get around to harlem. and let's all be honest-that's probably more to do with fear and racism than anything else. which is sad. and ironic. and everythign else you are saying. but truth is truth. and the truth is that harlem is changing
You aren't welcome in the community, so why should I make you "feel" welcome. Im unapologetic about my bias toward gentrification and white people in harlem in general. I respect your opinion, respect my view. Its bad for the community. No one owns any particular part of a neighborhood. Blacks have been negelected and Harlem has been neglected for too long, now all the development tahts happening is not for the good of the neighbors and the community. we still have real issues to be tackled, some that I have named. So when you and the developers push all the blacks and hispanics out of harlem, where are they going to go? where are all of their issues going to go? nothing will be solved. Until there is a community-initiated plan, with community-based developers, constructing a community-controlled project uperated under community-control for the benefit of the present community population, let the land remain empty. The community should be on strike against these outside developers who are mainly looking to profit at our expense. What part of that dont you get. HARLEM is very different from anyother community. We have been shunned from downtown, LES, and all these other "gentrified" neighborhoods you speak of. Harlem is home, and its now your home too, so get use to the issues, the backlash, the acceptance, ALL OF IT!!
141,
Complaining about it will go nowhere, you have to act, or you will sit back and watch Harlem as you know it evaporate.
People are buying up buildings, fixing them up, there are still so many boarded up buildings left.
There are many black people of means in this country, they should be looking at Harlem and taking ownership if it so important, where are they?
Local poorer people had their chance and some took it, many did not and are complaining about it now like it is someone else’s fault.
There is a successful black middle class in this country and it is growing, these folks should be taking ownership.
The uneducated poorer people sadly will always be left behind, whatever color.
Black people still have a huge advantage in Harlem, they do not have the fear and ignorance that keep so many white people away, now is still the time to take ownership, but that time is fading.
Blame is old and it leaves behind a widow and orphan, could have and should have.
White people will NEVER understand black people. so i dont know why I try to explain. You see it as we might be blaming you, or having a negative attitude. Its not about that at ALL. When you have strived and fought for the services we need in the neihborhood and then when the white people come you finally see them start to arrive. We couldnt get a supermarket to open past 7pm, everything except for a few bodegas closed early, there were NO banks, nothing... now its here, because YOURE here. All those borded up buildings have been purchased already, and the ones that havent are too expensive to buy. You forget the median income in harlem is $20,000. So you tell me who in harlem is going to be able to afford. Dont get me started on the middle class blacks, they are just as worse as whites and dont want to be apart of the solution either. Again, you whites will NEVERRRRRR understand our culture, how we deal with people, and why we see things the way we do.
grain of salt,
I disagree, most African Americans have had their roots, family name and history severed by slavery. I think black America has some claim to Harlem.
For many African Americans, Harlem is the place to call home.
But there is no free lunch, and market forces cannot be kept away from Harlem.
141,
Wrong, the stores on 125 came first, then the white people, you are blaming again.
I see from your last comment about black middle class, you do not want them either.
Maybe you think black middle class are a different race.
But I think we agree, it is not about race but money in this country.
The projects will always be in Harlem, but people on $20,000 in a free market apartment will have a hard time lasting.
Maybe stronger rent control, but the city, con-ed etc will always have their hand out and landlords will have to pay up at market rates.
You cannot stop market forces by complaining.
Grain of Salt has some suggestions.
Stop blaming and start doing.
i love how people who all of a sudden are harlem residents claim to know everything about the ills and the social issues that surround it. The stores on 125 did come first, and that was because of WHITE PEOPLE. Please dont get that twisted. As a long time resident who has attended community board meetings, applied for lotteries, and know practically everyone on my block and in my building, we all share the same sentiments. Harlem is different and you hit it on the head, BECAUSE ITS AFRICAN AMERICAN. BECAUSE 8th ave is called FREDERICK DOUGLASS, because 7th ave is called ADAM CLATON, because LENOX is CALLED MALCOLM X BLVD. ITS THE HISTORY, THE PEOPLE, THE STRUGGLE. WHEN THE WHITES COME IN DROVES, IT WILL CHANGE THE COMMUNITY FOREVER, you'll all want those big box stores and barnes and noble and whole foods, etc. Great for the neighborhood, but where were they years ago when YOU werent here?
so your solution is that we (white middle class) should leave NYC? because other than harlem, i cant really afford to buy anywhere else. i also cant afford to shop at whole foods. talk about racial stereo types.
141,
People like Magic Johnson did not invest in Harlem for the White people, am I wrong??, please answer
Do you think African Americans should not have to deal with market forces like everyone else??, please answer
Sterotypes? yeah You gotem too! I hear on here about how you folks cant find vegetables, so yeah, ill go with that. I see on here, the jokes about all the fried food spots and nothing else harlem has to offer but soul food... stereotype? yeah ill take it! Majic johnson invested in a movie theater and a overpriced starbucks. I would like to see more of the homeowners initiative like he has in LA with Washington Mutual, but hey.. this is New York.. And it all boils down to race! Yeah you didnt look in harlem before, because you wouldnt dare treck up here, but now its cheap, and affordable.. give me a break!
Whether I'm poor or rich, or rich or poor, Though its all the same shit
I'm Black, Even though my skins kind of light That means my ancestors was raped by somebody white
So I like to sing dance and crack jokes
Eat good food and be around black folks Drink all night and still go to work monday
So I like the kids looking real nice
Cuz I've been poor and I know what it feels like
And I'ma hold my right fist real high, I Might see my man and we might get real high, I'm Black
And I know it, and I aint afraid to show it
And I'm the genius and the motherfuckin Poet.
So I gotta heart full of bravery
Do for my peoplez that went through Slavery
I'm Black, So you know I'm young in the sports...Nintey percent chance I get hunged in the Court
I'm Black, Don't you be scared of me Mister, Cuz you don't really seem to be scared of my sister, I'm Black
Even with a caramel complextion
Look in the mirror see Malcolm and Martin reflection....I'm Black
Just like the PANTHERS, looking for an answer
It's prejudice shit is like a cancer
I'm Black Look in my eyes the wall can't get pulled over
Look in my cars and stay gettin pulled over...I'm Black
Im the public enemies number one
Government looking in the hood sending in the guns...I'm Black
I grew up off the good time show
Drink liquor smoke weed and let the good times roll...I'm Black
I live for my wife and my seeds
And my mom with a bond only God can acceed..I'm Black
I got to show my homeboys love
First thing you learnt in the hood is homeboy love....I'm Black
And I'm mad if I ain't nuthin else...I'm Black
I'm beautiful and I love myself
anon 4:30 poster:
I am not saying this to be mean but that was the most ignorant statement I've read in this debate yet. Do some research on the economics of Harlem and come back with intelligent dialogue. Black people don't have fear? You have a lot to learn.
Anon:
What kind of statement is this?
"The projects will always be in Harlem, but people on $20,000 in a free market apartment will have a hard time lasting."
Are you a city planner, a palm reader? How can you make a statement like this and what are you really implying by making it?
It would be great if ALL whites would stay out of harlem, but thats pretty hard now. You just don't understand what you are doing to the neighborhood and its culture in your search for cheap rents and cheap property. You will never understand. I guess because blacks and whites have been segregated for so long in their own little neighborhoods, we have no clue about eachothers culture. I will own up to that. We finally have an area rich in culture, decent ameneties, with black history, poets, (and property you can point to and say 'Duke ellington lived there" or "malcolm lived here") musicians you know.. CULTURE. and as soon as you whites come in deep enough numbers, all of that will be gone. Thats the difference between harlem and other "gentrified" neighborhoods
141 I am left speechless.
I want to thought provoke, its necessary... why are you speechless?
These comments make me realize why there'll never be peace in the middle east. Everyone is too busy being right to compromise.
141 -
you dont want to thought provoke. you want white people out of harlem. so you think if you post about blood in the streets we'll stay away. then you say that we're racist and ignorant IF we stay away. i think you'd prefer we stay away so you can continue to paste the "racist" tag on us. are we white people who live in harlem racists? or are we just evil culture destroyers? i know that was #1 on my agenda when i signed my lease.
this is an unwinnable debate-for both sides. im glad we're having it-but we're basically 4 or 5 people.
white people are going to continue to move to harlem, because of all of the great things that have always been there (culture, history, arts) and because of the things that have recently arrived (affordable, beautiful, condo constructioin). they will come, and they will know you hate them, but they'll come anyway. and you'll keep hating them. nothings going to change either of those things.
unless your whole "blood in the streets" scenario comes true. would that be a happy outcome for you?
"Blood in the streets" is a term used in the harlem streets to describe what will happen if all these beautiful so called affordable condos continute to flourish in large numbers and the current residents cant take part in the decent housing weve been fighting for FOR YEARS. Sure I wouldnt mind a few white folks getting robbed to slow down the gentrification, and i can guarantee it will happen if things continue at the current pace without including the residents in the redevelopment. And thats just giving it to you STR8 NO CHASER!!! look at the youth crime spike in harlem, just wait to the summer, when it gets crazy outside.. you'll start to hear more robberies, and crimes, as you do every summer.. or maybe you dont because you dont venture past your 4 block radius.
141
what brings you to this website anyway? are you seeking out white people who live in harlem so you can try to intimidate them out of YOUR neighborhood?
you're the one spouting the biggest BS train.
my 4 block radius? who am i? you follow me around all day? you know me so well. 4 blocks wouldnt even get me to the subway every day.
i've gotten mugged 3 times in NYC, none of those times being in harlem. i was the vicitm of a violent crime as a teenager, in NYC, again not in harlem. so why if any of these things happened to me in harlem, would i suddenly dump my home and run to "whitetown"? we live in the craziest city in the world. people flew airplanes into our buildings and killed thousands of people.
your blood flowing streets are really giving me shivers.
141,
Racist hatred.
Thankfully you do not represent the majority.
The good people of Harlem I know are nothing like you.
Again,
What brings me to this website is the curiosity of what people think about my neighborhood. The hood that Ive lived in for 29 years. The hood that ive seen people get shot up in the street on a daily basis, the hood where people are dying of HIV at alarming rates, the crack addits, the cycle of abuse, the lack of services, healthcare, hospitals, and most of all Decent Housing. Im not trying to intimidate anyone. THat is your assumption. What I am bringing to this website is the other view. My view. The view that i have express in my posts today. The other side. The side that you need to hear also. Not everyone thinks it's all gravy. Im a real person. I will tell you that I am on the fence with white people. Call me a racist, I'll take that. Im honest with myself, and others, and if you cant take that you need to question your motives. Its great you live in harlem, im glad you are here. Be apart of the backlash because there is plenty of it. Weve struggled to have our own hood when no other place would welcome us. All parts good and bad in harlem represent black life and when black life is threatened by white skin its automatically a problem, thats the way most of us feel. We wont tell you, but we do. In private conversations, on IM chats at work.. we have these reservations. Explore harlem - ALL of it.
i absolutely can take it. that's my point really. i can mind my own business wiht the best of em. and if that's what i have to do fine. but i would rather have an open dialogue that doesnt include threats of violence. i appreciate the parts of your posts that are honest about how you feel about the current state of our neighborhood. but while i cant change all the things that are wrong with the world, i also cant take credit for them. if you want to blame every white face you pass on your way up lenox ave then i have to be honest back and say i think that's very unfair and wrong.and it wont change a thing.
ive been following this thread all day and have yet to post. but i feel compelled to say to 141 that i think most white people who live in harlem are very aware of how the black population feels about them. we didnt all just fall off the turnip truck and show up in town execting the good people of harlem to welcome us with open arms. but we're here. for different reasons each im willing to guess. and if it makes you feel better about what's going on to make us feel unwelcome or like we dont belong in our own neighborhood, then so be it. but we live here. it's our home now. just as it's been yours for 17 years.
I've lived in several peripheral neighborhoods in NYC, and so has my sister. Neither of us have ever lived in Harlem, so please understand this is not a comment about that neighborhood or the residents that make their homes there. In the neighborhoods that my sister and I have shared in common we have always had distinctively different receptions from the local residents. She has always experienced a warmer, more friendly reception, and I have mostly received a much cooler reception.
In one neighborhood, it was made clear to me by a few of the local residents that I didn't belong and should leave soon. I did move, but only after my apartment was robbed twice as a message by a well known resident of the neighborhood.
However, in that same neighborhood my sister was never threatened or robbed, and was even able to make friends with several of her neighbors. I'm sure that my sister and I could be equally viewed as interlopers just looking for cheaper rents, so this difference didn't make sense.
Discussing this issue with my sister, she suggested that our different experience had to do with our sexes; as a woman she did not represent a threat. She was not perceived as a member of the privileged majority moving into or trespassing where they didn't belong. As a white guy going to work in a suit and tie, I did. My extremely liberal and tolerant ideals withered slightly as I came to understand that territoriality can be very much alive and well in NYC.
I'd like to know what others think.
Wow. Reading these comments is an eye opener. So here's a question as my reaction, and I know it might be as ignorant as many of the statements I've read here tonight.
If the white people should stay out of Harlem because they're coming there only to find cheap housing and not to be an integral part of the neighborhood or contribute something positive to it, should the twenty black-guys selling drugs in Washington Square Park every night stay out of there because they're only coming there to find more money in the rich NYU-students' pockets than they can find in their own neighborhood? Surely, they have no intention of contributing anything positive to that neighborhood? Do they?
Oh, did I just make a generalization? Well, if so it would only be consistent with all the other generalizations so many have made throughout this blog. My apologies for any offense I've made against the intelligent people who have posted here.
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?
Good night and good luck Nat Klein. God love your acceptance, tolerance and optimism. More people should share in it.
This article might be of interest to the readers:
http://www.amsterdamnews.com/news/Article/Article.asp?NewsID=67656&sID=4
Oh man this is a good post. I definitely have an opinion on white folks moving into Harlem. I've talked to some guys who live in the northeast NYC & NJ and others who don't live close to there. They would say this isn't cool. Given the fact that Harlem is a historical area for blacks. All I can say on that is respect or not urban neighborhoods change. They never stay with any group of people for long. I'm learning that in Chicago.
For Harlem's culture and history to survive it is critical that the neighborhood evolve and become more multicultural. I say this as a black, upwardly mobile woman who moved to Harlem from Lincoln Center 2 years ago. I'm a 2nd generation Harlemite though I haven't lived here since I was very young. My husband & I moved to harlem because we wanted to be part of the revitalization as we saw many longtime residents being pushed out, and yes because we got a beautiful condo for a fraction of the prices further downtown.
But let's not get it twisted, both 'up on 141' and 'grain of salt' have valid points and are off base. Grain of salt seems to forget that black people call Harlem home because we have never run away, upturn, downturn, blighted community or mecca, we have always stayed. Unlike white immigrants who lived here before, black folk didn't have the option to move elsewhere because of segregation and economics. Black people leaving now are being pushed out as opposed to the voluntary white flight of whites that have moved on. So yes, we have a special affinity and connection to this mecca to our culture.
Up on 141 has to realize that not all change is bad. Yes, it sucks that services and amenities that black folks fought for for decades didn't come until whites came, but I'm damn glad that we have it now. And frankly, I want more. I love going to Hue-man bookstore, but I'd also like a Barnes&Noble. There is nothing wrong with wanting more restaurants, bars, & cafes. I try to look at the whites that have moved to Harlem as "cool white people" because otherwise why on earth would they move uptown in the first place? Whites that are afraid of black and brown people simply wouldn't be here.
It's a shame that poor people of color are being pushed out, as forcing them out due to market forces doesn't solve the problems of poverty, it simply removes it from view, but of all places that can survive mixed incomes, Harlem probably has the best shot. I wish more upwardly mobile blacks were moving to Harlem (I'm certainly encouraging my friends), but i welcome anyone who understands the beauty and history of this community and wants to preserve it, while helping it to evolve and grow---preservation and growth do not have to be mutually exclusive.
Anon at 6:34 PM
This gives me hope for the Harlem I have grown to love
Harlemwhite
Anon 6:34, there are more "upper mobile" blacks moving into or moving back into Harlem. People who used to live in Ft. Greene and Clinton Hill. Of course the first stop for most blacks from all over the world is Harlem. Now that it has made changes it is more livable...and the restaurants and businesses are coming. Take a look around.
You know there are groups of people down south that don't feel Blacks belong in a neighborhood called the USA. 141 obviously has similiar beliefs regarding Whites in Harlem. I think they're all full of shit.
141 you are a silly one. My Black friends suggested moving there to me!! I guess you need to update the "Angry Black Guy Handbook" since my friends didn't know they weren't supposed to do that. I guess they don't know they shouldn't have white friends either! I'm not trying to displace anyone or ruin anyone's neighborhood. I just want a nice place to raise my family, live peacefully, and contribute to the community. Dude, get a clue... NYC isn't about this petty race bickering. Now go away. You're embarassing and a poor representation of Harlem and the rest of NYC.
I live in one of those new buildings in the 140s and the majority of the owners in my building are black.
Up in 141, are you really going to take out a bunch of middle class, first time black homeowners?
Where do you see these hoards of white people taking over Harlem? I'm white and I don't see more than three or four other white people a day. Is that an unmanageable hoard to you?
Yeah, it's good to be near 125. Clinton's office there, you know. Strollers? Use those Dora's strollers. We have one. It's excellent. No Bugaboos, pleeeeeese, sistahs!!!
so many of you are missing the larger picture. In america, capitalism and money rule, and even more so in New York. If you are not a land owner you will eventually be pushed around or out. Whether lower income black americans have some historical/cultural claim to Harlem or not is irrelevant. Even folks with rent subsidised apartments eventually will leave because they can't afford the services in the neighborhood. I call it economic apartheid, and while it's terrible, it's equally inevitable.
the purchase prices in harlem are overly-inflated. I base this on the fact that if you buy and renovate a building at current prices with 10-20% down, your mortgage will be far more than what you can collect in rents, so the whole exercise makes no sense as an investment. As a result, I predict that prices will come down as the market continues to soften. BUT, there will be no crash or debacle in prices - it is naive to think so. There also will be no blood bath in the streets or even very pronounced racial violence. 99% of the people getting relocated out of SROs in my immediate area just shuffle off quietly when their landlords give them a few bucks to scram. So 141, you're sadly mistaken about how this is going down, unless you're singlehandedly going to engineer the blood on the streets. And you're clueless about how things work in America. Your best bet would be to channel all your anger into positive action - educate yourself and go somewhere where you can afford to be part of the ownership class. Unfortunately that's NOT Harlem, now or in the future.
For the record, I am black.
141...
The answers exist within FACTS...
The development on 125 (theaters, starbux etc) were almost specifically due to a STUDY that was done in the 1990's that revealed that the African-American demographic spent the largest percentage of its income on material goods, entertainment etc -- out of all demographic groups in the USA.
This spurned major development and investment (by folks like Magic Johnson -- he is no dummy) who are just lining up to take both yours and my money.
My landlord (who is not white) grew up in the projects in the Bronx and made something of herself, and now is a successful property owner... through nothing but hard work.
I really enjoy Harlem and I am a HUGE supporter of Harlem culture (the positive points of it anyway) and I make an effort to seek out and patronize local businesses. (beyond my "4 blocks")
141 your attitude is deplorable and you will always be bitter. You have the same EXACT attitude as whites in trailer parks in the south and midwest. Seriously. The similarity is UNCANNY.
You blame race because it is EASY
You complain about someone never being able to afford this or that, then you use the term "you people"... it's funny.
Let go of your hatred, embrace those around you that truly appreciate and respect YOUR culture -- as I do. I dont want to change or remove your culture... I just want fresh produce and to not hear gunshots out my window and to live in NYC in somehwere I can afford. I dont want to take anyone's culture from them, especially a group that made a neighborhood what it is (although who actually made [or ruined] Harlem is quite debatable)
My neighbors treat me well and *most* people in Harlem are kind. I like it because it is still a place in the city where real "folks" still live.
I probably dispise Yuppies as much or more than you do. (and "Buppies" annoy the shit out of me too)
141... you will always be the "victim". You'd be better off if you'd realize that capitalism is colorblind... Magic Johnson sure did.
No one is taking anything away from you... your ignorance is giving it up for the taking.
-snowlake in Harlem
Was the murder also a hate crime?
Suspects may have yelled 'whiteboy'
WABC By Stacey Sager
(Harlem-WABC, April 8, 2006) - The search continues for those who allegedly chased a 20-year-old NYU student John Hehman into the street where he was hit by a car and killed one week ago. Though police say there are many witnesses, so far, there is no one in custody. Some are now wondering if the motive behind it all was race.
http://snipurl.com/owwr
Maybe it's best not to hold hatred in one's heart, black, white or other.
141, you were right. Now there IS indeed blood on the streets.
Now a caring human is dead.
and kids, full of ignorance, fueled by seeds of hatred, sown by people like you, will rot in Rikers...
...and the racial divide widens even more.
Hate perpetuates hate. Period.
But 141, I'm sorry to say that pushing snowflakes into traffic is not going to stop folks from moving to Harlem, I'm sorry.
141, your neighborhood is going to continue to get better and more livable, no matter how much dont want it to.
Your approach and attitude only gives fuel to those who do want to take your neighborhood from you.
And that's sad.
Wow, this blog, but more importantly, the comments that follow each post have been a huge eye opener that had me laughing at times and angry the next.
It seems to me that most people on this post, mostly white and some black, seem to believe in the American myth of "pulling oneself up by their bootstrap" and don't realize that racism and classicism are alive and well in America and form the very fabric of our culture still and inform every detail of our daily lives, especially HOUSING and choices about where and how a person can live.
More importantly, many white people on this post do not seem to realize or know what White Skin Privilege (Affirmative ACtion for White People) is or how it operates in this country. The uncomfortableness that many of you have felt by being the few among many is a daily fact of existence for most black people in this country. I'm not sorry for you that you are experiencing this because it's not the end of the world and you need to know what that feels like in order to bring about positive change that benefits ALL people in this neighborhood.
Long time black residents in Harlem are angry because for decades, due to racism and classicism, they HAD to live in Harlem because of de facto racism and classicism. I know of many middle to upper-class black people who tell stories of trying to buy a condos in the Upper West Side, or Park Avenue in the 80s and 90s, and being told that "there was no space available" upon the condo boards meeting them face to face. Let's not even talk about the Suburbs. Furthermore, there was a time when the only white face you saw in Harlem was someone collecting a bill of some sort, or more frequently, looking to buy drugs and black prostitutes.
Other than that, White people demonized Harlem and the residents who lived there, despite the grassroots community associations and block associations and neighborhood watches that had been going on for years. Now it seems it's okay to move to HArlem, NOT because of the lower crime rate (which isn't true) , but because everyone knows, even if subconciously, that within the decade, Harlem will be much whiter and therefore deemed a good neighborhood.
Not every black person living in Harlem wanted to live through the Crack Epidemic, and dilapidated buildings, but we did because many HAD to for a host of reasons, namely economics. The city did not good a great job, much less a good job, of letting the average Harlem resident know that they could buy a brownstone in the 80s at near give away prices. And given the high unemployment and poverty level wages at the time, how many of them could really afford to buy it? The black middle and upper class who COULD have afforded it abandoned their neighborhoods for the "safer suburbs"
Black people are angry because for decades, we have had to deal with daily police brutality, or having the cops take 45 minute to show up when someone broke into your apartment, or someone was shot or mugged. Now, to utter amazement, there is a cop or two on EVERY corner in central harlem, and cops show up in a blink of an eye to a call about a mugging. The police harrasment and brutality of black men, sadly and not surprisingly has not changed.
Contrary to popular belief, many of the so-called abandoned buildings of the 80s and 90s were owned by mostly white real estate types who sat on their property, never developing it-until the real estate boom that began in the 90s and continues to today.
I am a college educated, "upwordly mobile" Black 24 Harlem native who can no longer afford to live in the neighborhood that she grew up in. I am very angry and sad about that and have every right to feel that way. Unlike what others have said about being priced out of other Manhattan neighborhoods, many of my White friends and peers can still afford to live in the neighborhoods they grew up in (UWS, LES, Park Slope) because of the money their parents give them and/or trust funds.
I am also very aware that my class status will probably make me a gentrifier in another neighborhood, and it sucks because gentrification is not.
Don't get it twisted, I want more restaurants and clubs and bars in my neighborhood so I don't feel compelled to go to the LES or Brooklyn for a good time, but the changes in Harlem are not being made with long-time residents like me in mind, but those who can afford $500 dollar strollers, black nannies and trips to the Hamptons and such places like that.
I'm not the one to do a "woe is me" racism and classicism has EVERYTHING to do with peoples feelings about the changes happening in Harlem and new residents interactions. From what I see, many new Harlem residents still seem to want nothing to do with their black neighbors who are not as well off as them. A whole host of races are moving into this country, but because of the history of race and racism between black people and white people, white people are more visible and black/white relations are talked about more. You need to read more about America's history if you can't understand why this is. An amazingly intelligent man who does a good job of breaking it down is Time Wise and his book, "White Like Me: Reflections on Race from a Privileged Son".
Just my 2 cents. I look forward to what others have to say. And for the record, I think ALL residents regardless of color should do less complaining and more community activism to bring about the positive change they want to see.
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