Fighting Words
The boxing gloves are on, as New Yorkers weigh in on the future of Harlem real estate. A posting on Curbed.com regarding big development in the area has triggered a heavyweight division fight.
The thread began innocently enough, with a premise that the higher the number of vacant lots a neighborhood has, the higher the chance big developers will come in and transform the area. What started as a reflection on that idea turned into a heated debate over Harlem's economics, race relations and hipness.
I’ll highlight a handful of the jabs here, but reader beware: If you live in neighborhood and are faint of heart, you might want to skip this round…
"Even if Harlem is going through a huge renaissance, I'd never want to live up there -- too far from everything. Who wants that kind of commute? I'd rather live in Brooklyn if that's the case."
"Personally, I'm glad y'all don't venture above the 80s. Keeps the streets uncrowded and free of vacuous chicks in Uggs complaining about how there's no Barnes and Noble."
"...do you really think that people are going out on the town in Harlem, as though it has a hip nightlife? Heck no. You would have to leave the neighborhood for that sort of thing, and then you might get shot when you return home at 1 am..."
"...you clearly know nothing about Harlem. How do you think Harlem became world famous. It and places like it provide the globe with much of the slang, style, swagger you digest and pay big money for."
"Harlem is definitely hyped. Yes there are new condos building up, but it is all speculation that people will buy those damn places."
"...Harlem is horrible. With all the new developments there, believe me it is still SCARY after midnite. The deli's are shady with the windowed cashiers. Did i mention about the Conway? If there's a conway, then your neighborhood is screwed..."
Ouch.
posted by Rachel Natalie Klein at 12:59 AM
25 Comments:
the conway post is crap. i've been in harlem15 years andthe debate on this subject shows just how many people are keeping a close watch on development here. the changeshere are HUGE.
I wouldn't pay attention to any posts by "Svetlana" who seems to be no more than a mean snob looking for a place bitch out. She obviously has no clue about Harlem - or any other NY neighborhood, for that matter. LV and Prada? Yah right, *that* is what makes a neighborhood....
Harlem has a certain magic, I believe you have to live here to be aware of it.
Downtown used to be cooler before it was Bed Bathed and Bombarded
With gentrification, sadly this magic will be lost as Harlem becomes more like downtown.
I agree. I like Harlem too. I'm just about to buy there, and I couldn't be happier.
We're buying and moving there in April. The people that say Harlem is hype obviously haven't looked at the prices in Brooklyn and East Village. Harlem has the transportation and many of the ammenities. Many people just have outdated notions about the neighborhood. I think this will quickly change as development continues.
ignorance is bliss --
Wow Queer...those seem like a lot of exceptions to the norm because in the time that I've lived in Harlem I haven't witnessed anything close to what you described. As a matter of fact, there was more criminal activity over in Ft. Greene Brooklyn in a what is supposedly a "nice" area of brownstone row houses. No real problems since I've been in Harlem though. As far as the racism...well, people are racist. I learned that when I was 7 years old and lived overseas. Being called out of my name was hurtful and perhaps our place as those who have experienced it is to share the story with others so that the childishness of racism and xenophobia can finally end.
I'm sorry you saw such terrible things, Mr. Editor. I used to spend my summers in Harlem through most of the '80s. Then I moved up here to go to college in '86. Once I saw what I think was a robbery going on in McDonald's on Lenox. But that was it.
I used to laugh to myself as I watched the mass exodus of white people at the 96th st. stop on the train. A couple of times I had well meaning people ask me if I had missed my stop. That was always sure to lead to a great conversation as I explained where I lived.
The first night I came home from a night class I had two officers follow me in their car and ask me if I was lost. Then they proceeded to escort me and shine their lights up a dark alley I had to go through to get to where I lived. (In a building behind Kennedy Center on 134th st.) The people were always super nice to me andI look back on my time there with great fondness. Too bad it's too expensive for me to buy there now. I would if I could!
I don't need to believe that my presence in East Harlem is going to shift race relations. Residents who've lived here for years with no attention from their landlords, no amenities, no help from the city are naturally frustrated when the white middle class comes in and pays higher rents, bringing all these things with us and creating what to some eyes looks like some sort of neighborhood renaissance. As if Harlem was a hinterland of modern civilization.
Harlem doesn't always want to cater to gentrification, and there are historical reasons for that. Residents know I came from outside and they intuit differences in our living conditions, even if they're not so vastly different. But they know we came ot Harlem by really different circumstances.
I spend money in the neighborhood when I can, and I talk to people I see regularly. But I don't expect that rollerblading with my dog on a street down which white people have never rollerbladed with their dogs is going to be a sign of salvation and progress, even friendliness, to an historically oppressed, angry population. It's not about forcing Harlem into a preconceived version of a New York neighborhood. It's about recognizing Harlem's unique problems and working through and with its cultural particularities. It isn't like other neighborhoods and you can't live naively in Harlem, but you can be part of it if you pay attention.
Wow, so many things to respond to. I'm an East Harlemite and have been for the last 2 years. There are a number of comments about spending money in the community, talking with neighbors, etc. and I do think this is the key. I know most of the people on my block, plenty of kids in Jefferson Houses, store owners, etc. The stories here are amazing and I am always inspired and reminded of how much I have to learn about people and the world. My friends on the lower east side are psyched about their latest rent reduction b/c of two stabbings inside their building. I think violence is everywhere -- although QVE seemed to have an unfortunate run there (that sucks) -- but I do feel safer in my neighborhood b/c people know me, they notice when I'm not around. There's a sort of nosiness that I appreciate. You could die in your high rise apartment downtown and no one would notice. I go away for a few days and my neighbors are like, "Where were you? We were worried about you."
There is nightlife in E. Harlem. There is no question about it. Last Friday night we went to Orbit for live music (amazing drumming and singing from Puerto Rico -- awesome crowd and everyone dancing together) and then headed to Camaradas for some wine. Totally chill evening and a lot of fun. I'd rather have that than go to some gigantic club downtown with a $40 cover. Also, for the sports enthusiast...Nice Guy Eddie's Uptown is opening on 112th in the next few weeks. Hours will be 4 pm - 4 am and there will be Spanish language karaoke! I'm stoked. Nightlife includes: Creole, Ginger, Camaradas, Orbit, Piato de Oro, Ricardos, etc.
Two stories of East Harlemites to light your fire (maybe you'd like to interview them, Rachel)
* my neighbors grew up in the projects, married at 16, now own their own home and have 4 kids who have all gone to college; she works at the post office on 110, he's at the boys club.
* my car repair guy has lived in the neighborhood for 17 years, can talk all about psychology and has run the NY marathon 4 times. Plus he's teaching me new spanish vocab.
I am so blessed to live in E. Harlem.
There are drawback, sure. I still get the "What's up, snowflake?" every once in a while but, really, I can't complain.
I live in Hamilton Hieghts. The neighborhood has improved tremendously in recent years. All neighborhoods will change. Before the Africa-American community was there, it was Jewish, before it was Jewish, it was Dutch, before it was Dutch it was Native American. The World changes. You can't stop that.
As for finding a bagel in Harlem - a couple of coffee shops have opened on 145th in Sugar Hill/Hamilton heights. But guess what was in the glass case? Peices of cake and cupcakes! Ugh. I told the owner to get bagels and scones and they'll do much better.
So, I too am forever searching for my bagel on Harlem.
Where to begin! I have lived in East Harlem for three years now on a very quiet and traditionally Italian street, actually. Most of the people on my block are homeowners and/or business owners who are happily raising their children and in some cases grandchildren.
My building is 4 floors, I know all of my neighbors. Everyone I've ever had contact with who's a neighborhood resident is wonderful, warm and friendly - be they white, black, Hispanic, Asian or Middle Eastern. People know each other. I have never felt anything but safe and welcome. And I love my apartment.
However, not everything is peaches and cream, of course. From time to time people do look at me with suspect and I think that's largely due to the fact that in three years the young white population in East Harlem has risen by about 300%. I'm white, so I guess I'm part of that statistic, but I am certainly not a part of a higher income bracket than any of the "minorities" (who are of course the majority) in the neighborhood. People who (in my estimation) should be living on the Upper East Side or in Brooklyn are moving to the neighborhood (there's a Dad with a Bugaboo that I secretly loathe) and that is increasing rents for sure.
My husband and I have a 5 month old and we'd love to move from our one bedroom to a two bedroom in the area, but I'm afraid we won't be able to afford it - which is a total shame since my husband made a best friend in the bakery owner across the street from our place. He literally goes there everyday with the baby, and the visit is the highlight of everyone's morning.
As for white people who feel threatened or think Harlem sucks - they truly have no idea what they're talking about, have probably never been there and sad to say are probably a little bit racist. Now, I'm not gonna say I've never gotten a shout-out from a neighborhood boy because I have - and I like it! Harlem is one of the few neighborhoods in the city where people are actually nice to each other for no particular reason. It's a breath of fresh air and I love it. So to those who are still scared off - I say stay away! I'm down with the brown so I live uptown! See you on the 6...
there's a post office on 110th?!
Hell's Gate Station, baby! Between 3rd and Lex. They usually have West Side Story on the TV/video combo if the line's long.
C-Lo
It seem that every night I get off the 6 @ 116th with more and more white folk. This is my second year (I moved from 110th to 116th) and I really like the neighborhood. I like that for every dude that might hassle me (for which there are few) there seems to be several that are looking out for me.
Gentrification is frustrating because I feel like both the problem and the victim. I moved into the neighborhood because it was full of life but also because it was cheap. Now I fear that I will have to move on again soon, because in moving here I put a white face on the neighborhood for those who had a problem with the hood being too dark. Already I can think of people who a year ago said they would never look in e. Harlem, asking me if there is anything in my building. I can only imagine how shitty it must be to have lived here for years and now finding the rent skyrocketing, and the streets filled insular hipsters, head down, speed walking back to their apts.
i've been in east harlem. i have no complaints. crime happens. but it happens everywhere. i tend to think my neighborhood has more families then criminals. as for partying in harlem. i've never done it. all the mugging stories i hear about always come from LES.
wonder why there's no entry for today... Bagel, I hope you're not too busy refreshing the sparring match that has become the Harlem discussion on Curbed?
Nice one, bagel boy. I posted...
...crazy how we complain but yet do nothing about it...
cries of "not my problem"....well if you live there...wouldn't that make it your problem.
i have an issue with gentrification...my problem being that it sucks that Harlem (of all places) is being bombarded with white people...YET...as vacant lots and dilapidated buildings sat empty...no one but white people bought those up and tried to make something out of nothing. So I straddle that whole gentrification and being the mad black chick.
Don't get me wrong...I want Harlem to stay black and power to the people and all that jazz...yet, money talks and bullshit walks.
As for those of you who think Harlem has little to offer and complain about the rampant crime and not being able to find your oh so precious bagels...well...
show me a a great carribean/soul food restaurant in the east 80's...tell me about any neightborhood in any of the 5 boros that DOESN'T have some sort of crime...As well...you haven't really explored your surroundings in fear that you might be called a blue eyed devil or a snowflake....Harlem has a lot to offer socially.
...yea, I am sitting here with a smile on my face...those of you who don't like being the grain of salt in a sea of papper.....LMAO Been feeling like that every day of my life...sorta makes me giggle that y'all are feeling...ummma...snubbed!?..heeheehee
Rambling rooster,
Agree with your last comment, It is an education to walk in someone elses shoes.
Also, shame that locals could have bought these buildings so cheap when no white people would think to live above 110th St. Who is to blame ??
What's with the crazy misconception that the working class people of color who have made up Harlem's population for so long were lazy folks sitting on their hands when real estate was more affordable here. The reality is that you have to have means to take advantage of any opportunity. $100k or $1million is all the same when you are simply struggling to keep afloat. I'm so sick of hearing Harlem's newcomers act like longtime residents were asleep at the wheel when in fact they were economically disadvantaged (i.e.broke).
-St.Nick
Harlem is a piece of SHIT.
longtime resident, pissed that the mcdonalds that is supposed to close at midnight was closed at 11:48pm... that said, love Harlem... hope kids keep bucking off a little bit so you guys dont buy it all up too soon...
Stay away its not safe!!!
I have lived in Nyc all my life.I heard of the stories of harlem and know people that experienced living up there back in the 80's.To make a long story short.Due to high rents I was convinced to move up there.Because it was cheaper and it was getting safer.Well I lived there in east harlem for about 4 years.Things seemed alright at first then all hell broke loose.First,I was attacked in the early evening hours.There were also about 7 shooting in the last year 1/2 on or around my block.Most of the shootings that took place were random shooting.An innocent women was shot in the head just going to the store one night.It doesn't matter if people know you on the block.Random shootings happen all the time there..Look it up..So think before you rent or buy up there..Trust me..I lived there for many years.I know what is going on up there..Do your research before renting or buying up there
As a East Harlem resident for over 20 years, I felt compelled to post a comment. i am 31 and recall the crack era of Harlem, seeing empty viles, dope heads and the like. Hell, I went to Rice High School, an all-male Catholic School on 124th a lenox. I could sit in Religion class and see drug deal happenning across the street....I would not have changed it. The discipline from the Priest and Brothers combined with the street smarts gained in association with booys my age that had been through so much more, made for a great education.
It is bitter sweet to see the changes occuring...especially as a more conservative Black/Latin man. I do welcome the fact that the run down bldgs, crack heads, graffiti and businesses have come, but at the same time, I miss the days of old. It has lost much of the flavor that made Harlem, Harlem.
Whats makes it worse is seeing the apprehension and hesitation whites often have when a young man of colr says "whats up', or "hey". you cant ignore someone and expect them not to have some sort of resentment. Or seeing the speed walking with head down. I mean if you cat walk comfortably and feel safe going ot your place, why move here to begin with. Yes there is still an element of thuggery and crime in the area, and that is to be expected. Its a youth thing more than a Harlem thing.
I mean I must say, I do applaud the courage of many of you to come abov 96th St. It must bring with a bit of anxiety. I can only imagine myself moving to Bensonhurst or something. Yes change is inevitable and often good. With a mutual respect...we can all get along.
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